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TENSION SPRINGS ????

Posted by TERRY AT FOREVER YOURS TATTOO on 12/16/09


THEY CAN BE MEASURED IN FORCE RIGHT 0-700 GRAMS? RIGHT?CAN ANY TELL ME A GOOD PLACE TO START WITH A LINER OR SHADER? I KNOW THERE A LOT OF VARIABLES. JUST LOOKIN FOR SOME GOOD TECHINAL SPECS.



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RE:TENSION SPRINGS ????

Posted by rg1985 on 12/16/09


i think its 400 grams for a shader and 450 for a liner.but everybodies setup is different.


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RE:TENSION SPRINGS ????

Posted by tommi on 12/17/09


What are tension springs? Just curious


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RE:TENSION SPRINGS ????

Posted by johnny rotten on 12/17/09


I have personally never found them helpful. I think feeling with your thumb or even readings on an eikon style meter have been more helpful for me.

As with anything, it's more personal preference. I bought one of those from national about 7 years ago and went through everyone in the shops machines and nobody was similar in the spring tension that it gave. And everyone did great work. I haven't picked it up since.


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RE:TENSION SPRINGS ????

Posted by Gaston - FK Irons on 12/17/09


It would be an accurate to rely on tension by gram or shoot out an absolute value. because of the variables are different with each machine.

For example: A bar weight, stroke of machine, coil wrap, spring gauge, springs length, etc. The best way is to go by Duty Cycle and even better to get to know the right tension for your machine sensing the nipple of a bar while the machine is running.

If you are looking for a good tuning device get yourself an Eikon power supply with readouts.


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RE:TENSION SPRINGS ????

Posted by terry on 12/17/09


thanks to all that answerd we do use the eikon in this studio it has been very hepful w tunning was wondering if there is any real science to it i fully understand this measurement will be differnt for different machines but what about two same machines from the same manufacture when they are brand spankin new are they dialed in at the tension when they are shipped out thanks again to any one who replies


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RE:TENSION SPRINGS ????

Posted by gjm on 12/17/09


im not saying im right,but ive always just put a hair more of a bend on the rear spring than what i want for stroke length..then just use my ear and thumb to do any adjusting from there if needed..again that has worked for me but may not be the right way for everybody..


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RE:TENSION SPRINGS ????

Posted by terry on 12/17/09


good reply from fk irons although i alredy new everything u said are u telling me that you do all your tuning with out the aid of such a device and only use the eikon power supply to tune your machines before they are shipped if so i find that hard to believe i can put several diff tunes on a machine and still dial it in with this power supply i personall think your machines are the best in bis i have saw in twenty years i mean no disrespect here or ass kissing either but how can two same machines be differnt when they leave your hands


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RE:TENSION SPRINGS ????

Posted by brian on 12/17/09


to FK
do you ever tunning a machine with a 60%duty?


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RE:TENSION SPRINGS ????

Posted by Gaston - FK Irons on 12/18/09


Yeah man a couple of times. Some people like jackhammer hitting machines.


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RE:TENSION SPRINGS ????

Posted by brian on 12/18/09


yes i like jack hammer machines and never found nothing with 60%,only liners.
do you notice any triuble with ink flow in that machines?


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RE:TENSION SPRINGS ????

Posted by Gaston - FK Irons on 12/18/09


as long as you can control the setup you shouldn't worry about anything. You work with what work best for you. One of our artist uses the machine so low that you cant even hear it, the man may be running a 39-37 DC and his tattoo and blacks are solid as it can get.

Then in the other hand one of our friends runs his machine at 13 volts, and his work is as smooth and clean as it can get as well.

Regular rotaries have a 99% duty, some people won't change them for anything. In tattooing hand motion and technique is the bigger factor to achieve the work right.

At Visionary tattoo expo I saw Bob Terrell doing a portrait and his machines by the way they sounded were probably running at a 35% Duty. Almost like if the spring was made out of paper. the end result was off the chain.

He is known to take his time so that I wouldn't be surprised why his setup was that way.

But again these is my opinion based on the way most of the machine I owned sounded.


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RE:TENSION SPRINGS ????

Posted by Gaston - FK Irons on 12/18/09


To add to my post,
this is the beauty of coil machines that you can tell the machine how to run and do for you. But again you can also adjust your hand if the machine doesn't allow it. But that is topic should belong to a whole new post.

For example, what is the cycle of the tebori technique???? Exactly!


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RE:TENSION SPRINGS ????

Posted by mr.know it all on 12/20/09


ive seen the tebori use a pulse solution and eternal ink..they like using 11mag bugpins/curved to do there portraits with the swirly pastel stuff behind it..tebori is from ohio right??hahaha


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RE:TENSION SPRINGS ????

Posted by brian on 12/21/09


regular rotaries have 99% DC?
i always hear that regular rotarys have 50%,there are few exceptions in market like the hybryd or the stigma.

you can´t compare the tebori hand movement with someone that using a coil machine,its impossible make tebori movements with coils

if anybody some day make a rotary with speed control is a perfect machine for me


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RE:TENSION SPRINGS ????

Posted by ironwolf13 on 10/14/10


you guys talking about SPRING TENSION GAUGE will i have notice now day's lot's of guys or newer guys read the spring gauge the wrong way but if it work for them good for them .the way it should be read to measure the rear spring tension. Used to determine and adjust the rear spring tension by putting the gauge end on the rear part of the ARMATURE BAR under the rear spring and pushing down to it touches the front coil and for the reading are all different i know all machine are set up in all different ways but for liner should have about 25 to 50 grams and a shader about 50 to 100 grams . not read by the front of the armature bar and pushing down on the gauge and have the read out like 400 450 500 or to 700 the back spring where all the tension work being done by at the rear spring not the front of the armature bar .i have been in tattooing and machine building for 17 year's and know how to put the right amount of throw in the back spring .to get the machine to run at it top.to get it at a good duty cycle aaron cain set his machine at unload 50 to 56 % and that how i set my throw about the same way.


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RE:TENSION SPRINGS ????

Posted by Don't feed the animals on 10/14/10


I've seen the tension gauge used both ways I wouldn't call it wrong to use the front just a different way of doing it personally I like to place the slot right behind my abar nipple with nipple on and press down just easier this way cause I've had machines where you couldn't get it under the abar but different stokes for different folks I geuss


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RE:TENSION SPRINGS ????

Posted by ironwolf13 on 10/14/10


Well you are right about that man! I have some machines you cant get it behind the a-bar but I was just saying that was that if everyone has a different way to do. But that's the way I was taught. But I guess there is different ways to Measure the back spring.


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RE:TENSION SPRINGS ????

Posted by Kimmiroea on 10/28/10


What the hell are you guys talking about putting it behind the armature bar under the rear spring . Thats the wrong way, how the hell can that even happen ? How can you do that behind and under ? Please ecplain to the detail . You can do what you like but the right was is behind the nipple on the bar. Danny Fowler has a video showing this and he sells them. I think they are garbage and cant work like FK said machines amd springs spring length are not the same so they are not for me or really anyone that is good at what they do . Anyone good or known builders use them then object .


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RE:TENSION SPRINGS ????

Posted by Dont feed the animals on 10/29/10


What ya do is place the tab on the end of the gauge under rear spring behind the a bar the rest of the cut out will go above the abar under front spring and pull down I do believe this is the correct way to use the tension gauge I've just seen setups where it was difficult to get it in there and I think it's just easier behind the nipple just two ways of accomplishing the same goal nobody does everything the same way the outcome is what's important


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RE:TENSION SPRINGS ????

Posted by Benny on 10/29/10


How much tension do you guys put for a short stroke cutback shader and how much for a long stroke color packer ? I know everyone is not the same so i would like to see how much you guys put.


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